Navigating school transitions – "a different brilliant®" podcast

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML): Welcome to a different brilliant. I'm your host, Madeleine Jane Lobsey. I am a AuDHD woman and parent of Autistic children. And I'm joined in the studio today by Megan Williams, who is Aspect’s Autism Practice Person or Manager at Aspect Schools. And Megan has an extraordinary career that began in teaching, where she held various leadership roles across all sorts of places in the education sector.

Over 22 years at Aspect, she's made substantial contributions, including establishing three school campuses, Leading Aspect’s outreach program, and collaborating with teens to develop and implement, and collaborating with teams to develop and implement Aspect’s of Autism Practice Framework, a.k.a. Meghan is a legend. Welcome.

Meghan Williams (MW): Thank you. Madeleine.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML): It's so great to have you here. And today we're going to talk about something that I think many households deal with and that is navigating the transition back to school. So look, I feel like there's going to be many things I want to say about this, but let's just start at the beginning and see if we can start to say, what are some of the common challenges that Autistic students face when they're trying to transition back to school?

Meghan Williams (MW): I think, one of the biggest things is anxiety for not just the student and the parents, but also there's an element of anxiety for schools as well, and the unknown. So, students are going back to school and some students are going into new school settings and, there's going to be new routines, new people, new places to go. And that can be problematic for different people. So.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML): Yeah. And when you say anxiety, like, I'm thinking about my own three children that are just very different, but when you say anxiety, what kinds of things tend to be the common areas of concern where it's, you know, like how’s this going to go or what? What's going to happen?

Meghan Williams (MW): Yeah. So I guess it's like starting from, even just I've got to wear a uniform if you're a new student going to school. And what's that going to feel like? And am I going to be comfortable in this? And, the students going back, I've got a new teacher. Have I got the same kids in my class?

I'm going to have to change classes. Where am I going to sit? For staff at the school, they've got a new cohort of kids, and going to we're always overachieving. Want us to do the best for our students? Can we support them to get best outcomes. So and then parents are worrying about, how’s this child, is their child going to be happy and is this class going to be a good fit for them and will they be well supported?

So there's a level of anxiety across the board for everyone. But there's also a level of excitement as well. And yes, it's an opportunity for growth and development and making connections. And if we do a good job with supporting transitions, our kids are going to feel like they belong and they're going to be happy and enjoy going to school. So yes our students.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah. I mean, now I'm just thinking about all the things I used to do as a parent to prepare my children for school. Every year, you know, depending on what they were going to be dealing with. But also, you know, trying to think about everything I wanted to tell the teacher and wanted to tell the school, and, I don't know, I I'm starting to feel the stress of even thinking about that. And I'm now thinking, man, there's probably some really good things we could do that would make a difference to that.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. And I think the important thing is don't underestimate how prepared we how much we could prepare students and staff at schools and, wondering if you're giving too much information or not enough. If you don't give enough, then it could be problematic. If you give a lot, that's great because then staff can use that information to inform their teaching and learning programs, and individualised things for kids. Their supports the activities they can tap into kids strengths and interests make school a much more fun and exciting place, to be at every day so.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah, because it's complex, isn't it? Like even as you were talking, I was going, well, there's going into class, then there's sitting in the whole group of the class, then trying to do group work, which is a whole other different thing, and then trying to go out and eat in the schoolyard and then play. I mean, there's lots that happens at school.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah, there's lots of layers. And so one of the big focuses of, the role I have in our Aspect Schools is, making, supporting leadership teams to understand how they can make autism-friendly environments. So is the learning space comfortable for the students that are in there? Are there ways that we can prepare them for what's gonna happen in the day, like setting up schedules and routines?

Can we make lessons? Easier to understand, like the expectations of what do I have to do? Where do I sit? But how do I understand this content? And that could be just something as simple as putting a star and highlighting a section on the board of this is where we're focusing can make the difference for kids. Oh, I can see what I need to do. Not relying on a person telling them.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Man That that's amazing. That thing you just said. Because if I look at my own experiences as an Autistic person going to school and just feeling like this sort of barrage of information and experiences all the time, if someone had said, hey, this is the point, and that's what you should look at, that would have made worlds of difference for me.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah, I think as a teacher, when you when the kids do come into school, if you're finding you having to verbally prompt kids, with a particular lesson routine activity, that's the part that we need to think about. How can we visually restructure that? So they're not needing so much support from a person, and they can rely on their environment and the visual supports around the room.

And that can become a third teacher for them so that they don't need that person next to them the whole time, coaching them along the way. So and it and it will build kids confidence and self-esteem that they can do things without having someone to come and help them all the time so.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah, right. And I mean, I'm now even I'm going many places in this conversation, but I'm thinking, you know, I know a lot of educators as well. And I think they will often go, oh, I got 30 kids in my class. Or how do I how do I support everyone? Or it seems like I've got to do so many big things to make a difference. But what you're saying is some very simple things can actually make a difference.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. So it can reduce anxiety. It can support skill development. And just with so you've got your physical environment, you're looking at how you can adjust it, make it autism-friendly, make sure that the sensory environment is comfortable. So it could be for some classes. Do we need the lights on. Do can we, can we rely on the natural light.

Is it that this child, needs more space? So the first thing, once we do a general assessment of our environment, we do need to know our students. And that's where our students, if they can, inform us in some way when we're doing that transition plan or, before they come back to school, they've given us some information about them and what autism means for them and about their preferences and their support needs. Preferences are really important. But also, for some of our kids, we also rely on parents telling, telling us that important information.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

So when so say I'm a parent, there'll be parents listening to this going, oh, this is so good. What kinds of things would they want to inform a school about with preferences?

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. So it could be thinking about, the what the student prefers in the with their sensory, environment. So my child likes a quiet environment. If it's going to get busy, it's good to give them forewarning that it's going to be busy or my child, doesn't like particular smells. And if you're in high school and you're going past the kitchen, areas, having some signage up, so that, the child knows that's an area I might want to avoid unless I have to go in.

So parents providing that information around their sensory preferences. But it also could be the, preferences for how they like to learn. So some kids might, like, prefer to see something like in action and, and staff or students doing it or on a video or some might prefer to just go away and read something, and that can make all the difference in being able to access and engage in a lesson if we're able to, be flexible in our teaching and learning and change how we deliver. So it's not one, one approach fits all. We're flexing different ways so that kids can show the true potential and be able to develop their skills

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah. And the thing I think the whole time you're talking is doing this for every student would be extraordinary, whether they're Autistic or not. Like imagine for anybody, if you could go, I prefer to learn visually. I prefer to read something. I prefer to see you do it. You know, that would be amazing for people.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Definitely. It's like the ultimate challenge, isn't it? What can I do in this space of time for to support these kids?

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah. And I think that's the point that you've made as an educator like with this, let's say 20 minutes or whatever it is, sometimes it's short to really deliver this information. What are the possible ways that I could be delivering it that would make a difference?

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. And we don't always get things right. And that's where we can go back to the kids and say, well, could I have done this a different way that would suit your learning style or your preferences? But, being open to changing our ways and not being, this is the way I do it. So, kids need to fit in with my approach.

So when kids are transitioning back to school, they're thinking, will, will I be able to will this class fit my style? Or they might be overthinking? Will I be able to sit on my own? What can I really like sitting with that person? Will I be able to sit with my favourite friend? So if we're thinking about how we can prepare them, once we know them, we can put in those supports that they can use before they come back to school.

So mum might have a story or a quick video of a new classroom that she can show their kids. Or dad might show the kids before they come and there might be a routine that they might be able to see that's going to this is what the week might look like, or your regular day might look like.

So doing, like for parents, it might be driving to the school and practising the bus run or practising travelling to a new school, which is not the usual one that they went to before. So some of our kids do change schools.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

So yeah, that's all really clever. You know, I just had a thought. You know, we're not talking about education in this podcast. We're talking about transitioning. So why that why are we focusing on transitioning.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Transition is transitioning can be, as I said before, exciting. But it can also be for some kids, especially Autistic kids, a challenge. And, can, create a lot of anxiety. And as you know, when you're anxious and you stressed, you can't think clearly and you're not enjoying your time. So we want to make transitions, whether it's coming back to school or transitioning to a new school.

Prepare the kids as much as we can so they're comfortable when they go to that new setting, they feel like they belong. They're not just there. You can say that you're in an inclusive setting, but the test is do the Do the kids feel like they belong? Do they feel connected to their school? Do they feel good about themselves and they're not having to change them to fit themselves, to fit in with the school's approach or the class approach?

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Man ding ding ding. That's probably the most important thing you've said so far. I love it. You said, you can say you're an inclusive school, but the most important test is, does the student feel safe? Do they feel like they belong? Do they feel like they are included? I mean, that's the ultimate test.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah, definitely. And especially for our kids. Some of our kids are very good at masking, and we may think that they they're trucking along really well and they're engaged in the learning, but just keeping an eye on, some of our kids will mask how they're feeling, and they may appear like they're really happy and content. And then if you do that over time, that has a significant impact on a person's well-being.

And we do see, once, some of our Autistic students get to high school, there is a bit of a crash because they've been trying to do what they've thought they were expected to do for so long, and you can only do that for so long. And then it's, trying to put as much support in place to be able to support them to get out of, when they've had the crash, that sort of hole that they've gone into, which is not their fault. It's just the circumstances, which might have built up over time.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

I think that's so real for people listening to this. And I mean, even for educators who see it on the other side of it from outside the home. And that whole thing about masking, like, yeah, kids can go for years doing that. And then suddenly we wonder why they don't want to go to school anymore or, you know, why things are falling apart, so to speak.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. So I've had kids that I've worked with where they've transitioned into our school, and mum has shared and the child has shared a lot about themselves and what, what their experiences of school are. And when we tapped we've contacted the school, the school didn't understand why they were moving because they were doing so well. And, this child I'm thinking of now was a great example of a child that was able to mask and able to do what he thought he needed to do, but couldn't be his authentic self.

So, he felt safe to do that at home. And we probably didn't see, there would have still been an element of him. Continuing that at our school. But we were very aware of it, and we tried to put in supports so that he could identify when there was a problem and, and be able to address that so that he didn't have to carry that all day and then share that at home. And he could advocate for himself.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

I mean, that that just makes me want to cry. Like, really for both, like in in sadness for what I know I've dealt with myself, but also, with joy for that. That's possible for that student and for all students. You know, I think personally, what I dealt with, with one of my children is they would get to school and just completely, you know, I, we call it a meltdown.

I don't even like using that word, but, but melt down and not want to go in. And the only thing the school would continue to say is it's a it's separation anxiety. Because as soon as they're in the school, they're great. And I was like, well, yeah, because they're faking with you.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. So it's really important when we're thinking of transition. There's a process. And you want to identify those people. Say if a student's transitioning from us to a new setting. Yeah. Identify those key people at the school that could be key contacts for that student. They want to have someone that they can connect with check in, and talk about challenges that they might be feeling, but celebrate the wins as well.

But parents and the student being part of that, transition plan process so that the student can, where they, within their capacity, can inform of what they need and what they enjoy. And then the parents can provide additional information. And then, schools know a lot about autism, but it doesn't mean that you're going to have a successful transition if you don't know the student approaches them.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah. Yeah. So what you're talking about is actually just some very simple strategies. And I'm starting to imagine a little checklist of things that could be simply implemented for everybody to be able to create a transition plan. And I love what you said about yes, I love the thing about like, the safe person or the person they could connect with. But what I hadn't thought about before is not just that they go to when they need support, but also to celebrate the victories.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah, yeah. So, sometimes it, if our kids don't have a, strong friendship network, whether that's one person or a few, they've got this great news that they want to share and we need to celebrate that. So having that and sometimes it's an adult that they feel comfortable sharing with. So what a great way to be able to connect with someone. And you've got that safe person, but you've also got the person to, to.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Share what, like what you enjoyed today and that joy.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Like an achievement you might have done.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Ah man, I think that's so missing a lot of the time when, where or for me, for myself, for my kids, for other people I talk to. We're always focusing on how do we get the best support, how do we do, you know, the best practice? But I will often forget the joy part.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Exactly. Yeah. And that's if we if our kids are thinking about, the good stuff about school sometimes and we all do it, we can perseverate on. Something small that might have happened in the day. But, let's think about the other great things that have happened. Yeah, this might have happened at 9:00 this morning, but look at this great work or this. You've joined this activity. You've never joined before. And how wonderful is that?

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah. That's so good. Well, you've got a lot of experience. So is there. And I know as I prompt you, you can think of lots of different things. But what are some of the other strategies that you've seen that have been really effective or are effective?

Meghan Williams (MW):

I think, once you have the transition plan, developed and then you're, you start to part of that plan is having opportunities to practice to, to go to the school, gets in, get become familiar with the school, the staff, the classroom you might be in or if you're in high school, the classes, and then also with the team being open to that plan being flexible.

So some kids may only need a short time and, and they're good and they feel like, yeah, I can I can do this. And the parents feel comfortable, whereas other kids might need, a longer time. So I've got two kids in my head at the moment where, I had a wonderful teacher who did brilliant work with her class, and I always learnt from her as a leader.

And, she had a young man who was going to high school, and we'd all discussed it, and he'd been involved in it, that, a longer transition plan would be we benefit him more. And for him that meant, six months before he went to high school, he went along with a staff member for a period of the day.

Once a week. And that's very long time and can be logistically hard to do. But we were able to manage it, within our staffing so that the other kids still having their program back at the school and that was that enabled us to like, proactively problem solve what things might be stresses for him and what things he might enjoy, and to be able to, make sure we put supports in place and make sure he has access to those things that he liked. And he had a great transition, and he was really excited about going at the end of that. He knew the staff. He'd been going there for six months.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

That's just magic, honestly. That's magic.

Meghan Williams (MW):

And then we had another kid in the same class. Just to give an opposite example, we had the transition plan. We thought it was going to go for so long. She went two days and said, I don't need to go back to you. And off she went to her new school and we thought we'd have to do way more support for this young lady. And, she, she told us she's good so.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

See, that's what you want, isn't it? And I think that's probably my next question, which is how do you. Because that's real self-advocacy, isn't it? Like being able to say here's what I want. Here's what works for me. So how can we support that part of it for each student?

Meghan Williams (MW):

So, is part of developing, an autism positive culture in the school, your, understanding and acknowledging autism and valuing lived experience and, Aspect Schools have a big, focus on gaining student input about their plans, their goals, about information. What we share with other people, how they want it displayed about themselves. But we also, provide opportunities for students to advocate at a school wide level.

So on student representative councils and a lot of schools have those our students being able to provide, advice around decisions for the school and things we should have in there. So embedding into our teaching and learning programs opportunities for kids to be able to voice up and give their opinion and the way we respond will reinforce, their confidence in advocating for themselves or for their peers.

And, and it might be just as simple as making a choice for some kids, using a picture symbol that I'd like to do that now. And it's acknowledging that and providing opportunities for those kids to have those choices.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

You said that so lightly but you. But that's actually a huge thing. Like if, if, human being in any moment gets the opportunity to make choices and then those choices are honoured and acted upon. That's a, that's a very different life for someone who doesn't have that. So and it can just be a picture. Do you want this or this? So how could people at home be supporting and empowering self-advocacy, for the transition into school as a parent?

Meghan Williams (MW):

So I think it's, always like, doesn't matter. What communication, style a student might have thinking about how they can communicate their choices and preferences and how they can contribute to information about themselves being shared. So for kids who have a lot of verbal language, encouraging them and supporting them to be able to speak up, but some kids don't want to be part of a meeting and part of a transition plan or unable to be part of it.

So it's thinking of different ways that can happen. So a parent or a teacher may be able to, provide an opportunity for students to write down some things that gets taken to the meeting. We've had kids with some visual supports, and they've provided some information to their teacher, and they've brought it to the meeting. Or it could be a video about the child and the things they like.

And, if the child's confident enough, they could bring the iPad in, play the video, and that's their contribution. Whereas others, it might be we bring that information in. And being part of the meeting is not something they want to do. Or maybe they it's they're not understanding the meeting. So, at home level, always just, checking how the student is going, like, you gave that example of, your child was showing you that school was not a comfortable or happy place, and, being that advocate for the student, but we want to them to be able to say what's happening to the parent.

So they might have confidence to tell at school, but always be encouraging them to let. And I'm sure all kids do, let their parents know how they feeling and how school is travelling.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah. And that can be a challenging thing. You know, when kids come home from school, when they're dumping their gear and they're raw and they're tired and they want to eat and that, you know, all of those moments. But I know for myself in the times and I've just paused even for a moment and just sort of been with my child, even if I'm not asking a million questions.

What did you do today? You know, which sometimes you get nothing, you know? So but just being with them and going, how are they right now? What? You know, what kind of space are they in right now has actually made a really big difference.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. And for some kids, just observing like someone that might be chatty is suddenly gone quiet. So you might be asking them questions, but that's noted. That wasn't a great day. Or for other kids that are quiet all of a sudden, they're very like telling lots of information or just their demeanour, how they are.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah, I think that's really important. And I think as a parent, it's those kind of things that you want to back yourself with too. You know, like I did observe this and this is happening and it's valid. And you know, I think you would probably say this too, but, anybody's education is such a collaborative thing with parents and the school and the student, like, you've all got to be on the ball, I guess.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah, all the time. And, like, at home it might be, like, you've got a new uniform and the child mightn't be a fan of the new uniform. Might feel a bit funny, but it might be they have a choice of the different socks their wear. So it's same colour but different material or, finding different ways that the student can have their choice in their school day or their preferences. There.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey(ML):

Yeah. And is there anything, I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me, but is there other things, I guess, like that, that we could be doing that would empower like emotional wellbeing? So not just a physical experience, but the emotional wellbeing of the student.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. So, I know within our schools, we work with our students to set up, some visuals, visual supports that, reflect, that they can use to, to tell how they're feeling. And that might be just a rating scale or a colour scale or it could be a ready to work, plan. And sharing that with parents or parents might have a system that works and they are able to use that, with the students and sharing that with the school so that we're using one system across so kids can, indicate if they're not up for interacting, how they're feeling and having, a suite of known, strategies

that, can help, help them calm or help them re re-energize with, with the day. So you might come home and cognitively and emotionally just totally depleted. So, having access to the things that they love. So they might be into art and having time and space to do the art without having to do any more social expectations at home, because they've been social for a good, good six hours at school.

So they need that time to just decompress. And, and it's different for every child. So and and the supports are different as well. So it might be for some kids, it might be different facial photos that of how you feeling and a rating scale might be too difficult for them to understand, especially for our younger kids.

But they might have different visual supports. But again, sometimes it's down to observation how the kids are. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Well, this I'm going to ask you some tougher questions now, which is, don't even worry about your paper because I'm going to. Because what I want to ask you is, in all like, several decades of experience, are there any stories that stand out for you that you just go, oh, man, that.

Meghan Williams (MW):

That was.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

is this transitioning working so well? Are there any other stories that stand out for you?

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah, well, I always think of those two I said before, but there is another one where it didn't work so well and we've all had transitions where we supported where it hasn't gone well. And sometimes it can come down to logistics of, say, a student transitioning from us, logistics of the other receiving school or what they got capacity to do and, and the ability to flex with their programs.

And we had a young man that was leaving us and going into high school, and we knew he'd need a lot of support, but he was offered orientation sessions with the rest of the year sixes going into year seven, and we did our best to share all he’s supports. He had a bundle of different things he used from problem solving to executive functioning supports to, emotional supports.

And we did share them, but we didn't have a key contact person. And, our plan was just orientation visits with support. So there was an opportunity. There was a little bit of opportunity to practice skills that he need and get familiar, but he needed a more individualised approach. And he went off to year seven the next year.

And and we didn't hear from the school. And we have check ins in our plans to check how the school is. And, for that young man, I think it was term two. They contacted us and the wheels had fallen off. And unfortunately for him, he was seen as problematic. And what we saw was it was a problematic transition and it wasn't his fault that this didn't work for him, because he didn't have the time and space to people to get to know him, to know the supports he needs.

So, luckily they did come back to us. We had a meeting, he was involved, and we brought out all his supports, which he hadn't been using, and explain how to use those in the different activities that he did and in his day. And having that check in person was really important for this kid. So, I think that transitional broke all our hearts a little bit, that we knew he needed a lot of support and we just yeah, we knew that it wasn't going to work.

And then it didn't. And we had just hoping it would and it didn't. Yeah. And then you see the other transitions with the young man that the school was open to a six month transition, or the young girl that just did two and she was good and the school was okay with that. And she was able to move on.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah. Well, I think what we can take out of this, I love that you said that kid wasn't the problem. It was not a not implemented transition plan. So I think that's really what we can take out of this is, is it can be like make or break a transition plan for someone. And the more we, I guess, put into that and think about that. Are flexible in, in our in our ideas and looking to better.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Yeah. Yeah. And if we, if we know what stresses are for kids, our Autistic kids in our schools and they're transitioning on if, if we can predict it, we can have a good chance of preventing it. So if we share that information and share those supports, then school life's going to be a much happier place for our kids.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Yeah, I love that. Okay, so here's my other two tough questions. What's the one thing you'd say to educators about transitioning? If you could say it?

Meghan Williams (MW):

Don't underestimate how much preparation a student might need and, give them the information in a way that's meaningful for them and, give them information about multiple things. Not just the space, not just the timetable, but about who they can go to. And where they can go in playgrounds. And, and, I think the more information, the better our kids.

They won't be overthinking things. That'll have more space for learning then in the in, in their brains. But I think the goal is to create an environment where the kids can thrive, not just survive. So and we want to be watching out for that when kids are transitioning throughout the year and and making sure that that that young person does what we know about them fit what we're seeing right here. And if it's not, then we need to restructure how we're supporting that child.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Perfect. All right then, what would you say to parents.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Keep advocating for your child? We we are constantly learning in schools, and, it's the information you have. You are, you know, your child and you know, the supports in place. And, and we value that information. You've got lived experience that we don't. So all some of that staff might have. But, with your child and, your child and your and the parent is key to us being all the individualised the program, for that child at school.

So, again, don't underestimate how much preparation, but I'm sure parents are well aware of how much preparation the kids need. Or sometimes too much prep can go the other way. So do the, the prep and, and then the proactive problem solving afterwards and full warn both sides parents and schools full one where they might be stressor that you know of that you can't change so.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Again brilliant. So here's my final one. What would you say to Autistic students?

Meghan Williams (MW):

I think, you've got fabulous minds. Fabulous. Like your contribution, to your classroom, to your peers and your teacher is is valued. And we learn from you every day. You inform our programmes, you make our teaching and learning programs better, and you make us better teachers. So we've all learnt from you. We don't become a good teacher just by going to a university.

It's. It's the students that have taught us, how we should, do our approach in our classroom. So, please never feel like you've got to change who you are to fit in. It's your right to be your authentic self. And if, an environment is problematic and you're unable to voice it to the people at your school, let your family know. Let someone that's close closed know so that they could advocate for you.

Madeleine Jaine Lobsey (ML):

Beautiful. Well, Megan, thank you for everything you've done for decades to make the life of Autistic students better and everything you've done for parents and educators. And we just really appreciate you and thank you for your time today.

Meghan Williams (MW):

Thank you. It was wonderful meeting you and having a chat.